Protest the proposed changes to International Student Support (ISS) Services!
by Ian Gilmour // October 8 2009
Dr Rod Carr and the Senior Management Team are currently reviewing a proposal to subcontract out various services to the UCSA, including ISS. This is partly based on Steve Jukes’ assertion that he is the voice of all students and that students are unhappy with the current performance of ISS and that it will be better suited in the hands of the UCSA. I have made a submission to Dr Carr and the Senior Management Team outlining some of the reasons that Mr Jukes has (accidentally or deliberately) misrepresented student opinion, and why the proposed change is a bad idea. What YOU need to do is if you agree with the submission, is email Dr Carr or members of the Senior Management Team (contact details at www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/backgrnd/counciletc.shtml) stating that you support the submission and then adding further reasons why you think it is a bad idea. The submission follows.
8 October, 2009
Dear Dr Carr and members of the Senior Management Team,
I am writing to make a submission regarding the proposed change to the International Student Support (ISS) services currently offered by the University. Contracting these services to the University of Canterbury Students Association (UCSA) and shutting down the ISS will have a negative effect on both the quality of support available to international students, and the utilization of the support that is available.
Key differences between an international support model provided by the UCSA and one currently provided by the ISS are:
- The UCSA does not represent the relevant international students. The majority of international students who would use ISS are only studying for one or two semesters, not long enough to stand in, and in many cases vote in, the UCSA elections. This would mean that the UCSA does not have the same pressure to provide adequate support for international students as the ISS does, and so would not offer it.
- Following on from the previous point, the international students who would utilize the support services would more likely turn to an UC run ISS than support provided by the UCSA. This is because they would seek help from the institution at which they are studying, not from a students association, of which they have little knowledge. I appreciate that this claim is unsubstantiated. However, equally unsubstantiated is Mr Jukes claim that he represents all students, for the reasons outlined previously.
- An international student support program offered by UC would have more weight to the wider community versus a program offered by the UCSA. Part of what ISS offers is support in talking to the wider community on behalf of the students, say if a student is in the hospital or has lost their passport. It carries more weight to be a representative of the esteemed university that the international student is attending, rather than of the much vilified students association.
For all of these reasons, I would urge the Management team to consider in detail the implications of transferring these services to the UCSA. I would also encourage setting up independent focus groups (not run by the UCSA or ISS) of the relevant international students to assess independently the performance of ISS and the effect the proposed changes would have.
Regards,
Ian Gilmour
Jack
09. Oct, 2009
This is a bit fucking ridiculos Ian.
I bet your one of the ball lickers who work for UC services and dont want to see your sweet little lark (tertiray education union negotiated wages and benefits) disapear.
The loss of these exhorbitabant wages and benefits will allow more services be provided for students. Not less.
Why is the students association villified? because its an easy target.
International students want a better service. If they arent here for very long we need to taylor our service towards that. Despite the fact they arent there for very long- they are still members of the students association.
Your just scared that your going to have to do some work for international students.
Get a fucking life. and get back to work you lazy hua.
Peace and love, Jack.
Jess
09. Oct, 2009
Sure “Jack”, I bet you’re one of those ball-licking UCSA kids who wants to avoid any real work by giving the clubs huge grants for holding a few regular piss ups.
Replacing these *cushy jobs* with UCSA non-experts - governed by the wonderfully unresponsive one year term LawSoc committee kids, sounds like a *great* idea, just before the VSM pretty much kills the whole exercise.
If you happened to take a bit of a look at the expertise in the services, especially ISS, its worth the (shock horror) union supported jobs.
UC just wants to shirk its duties and sees UCSA as a nice offload.
And someone actually caring enough to want to respond to an issue!! Lets shout them down!!!
wanker.
Love and kisses,
Jess
Jack.
09. Oct, 2009
Jess.
You sound pretty hot. Date?
Look I dont particularly like the UCSA. All I am saying is that them and the 100 odd UCSA affiliated clubs provide a relevant and more than adequate service to students.
Who said anything about getting rid of those who are “experts” in their field (i.e ISS). No doubt they will be employed by the UCSA. And they will do a better and more relevant job under the UCSAs banner than for the UC.
UC have never been accountable for the services they provide students. Under this proposal the UCSA will.
Unions don’t support students. Unions support their members. Under this proposal UCSA gets the opportunity to finally support students (their members). UCSA gets to employ people who want to help the student experience- rather than just pick up a sweet pay cheque and say they work for the university.
I want UC to concentrate on teaching and learning and the UCSA to concentrate on providing top quality student support services.
peace and love,
Jack.
Jess
09. Oct, 2009
Mmm, maybe, you insulted debz though and she is the most important voice in feminism since Thatcher.
Good points but having had a look at that structure document thing, I don’t see how the UCSA can fulfil any of those things. The UCSA has been in the position to do these things for years and failed miserably, now they are just meant to magically develop powers of competency.
Having a one year exec governing all these services won’t exactly give confidence to the experts (or students) and if we lost all those, or ended up getting the bottom of the barrel cause UCSA could only offer lesser salaries without any union representation, then we’d seriously lose quality.
Where is the research on how its done overseas? Or the consultation with students, I mean from the sound of the document, it just sounds like a mostly proof-read Jukes rant, with a survey that isn’t really very representative. I mean, that would be useful before suggesting big changes. Certainly putting the proposal out for comments, like the Uni does.
This just seems all a bit slapdash, typically UCSA.
Part of teaching and learning is having non-academic support that is best provided by those connected with the academics, if we start mixing and matching what the students representatives provide and what the university is supposed to provide, the UCSA loses its impartiality and the UC gets to blame all its woes on the UCSA.
But thanks for the more measured response, I appreciate the points and see some good in giving students more power but the UCSA is meant to serve a purpose and with the scope of services under the new hub model it seems to lose that.
And Canta losing its independent position is pretty shitty,
Love and kisses,
Jess.
Jack
09. Oct, 2009
Dearest Sweetest Jess.
You seem to sound lovlier and lovlier the more I read from you.
The UCSA has not provided many of these services in the past because they have not been contracted to.
By being contracted to do this (and being held to account) the UCSA will become a whole lot more relevant to so many more students (more than those who recieve grants or go to tea party).
I agree that mixing and matching of services is not good. But that is exactly what has been happening (read student hardship funds). The UCSA at the moment does not have an entirely relevant purpose.
The UCSA has always advocated for more/better student support services alongside better/more teaching and learning resources. Now is UCSAs chance to show what it is really here for. Providing good quality services to students. So that students know that if they need a hand (none academically) then they go to the UCSA.
If these services are not up to scratch then the students get to blame UCSA because they know exactly how much they are paying for these services (ie. the levy).In the past no one has been accountable for the provision of student services because no one knew the cost of it. The cost was absorbed into the esther of the UC. There were no student surveys done on satisfaction or service rates.
The services don’t necessarily need to be provided by an impartial operator. They need to be provided by someone who is in the students corner- the ucsa.
By contracting with the UCSA to provide these non academic services UC can concentrate on its knitting- providing teaching and learning resources for students. The UCSA can concentrate on providing services to its members. Services students want.
The UCSA is usually governed by lawsoc twats. but it has also now appointed a service advisory board. This is a board of three people who come from outside the orgainisation and advise the exec/general manager on where it thinks services can/should improve/be provided.
It would be easy to say- yeah canta is shit who cares.
but it is also easier to just say. the editor has his nickers in a knot. He is a tool. But the canta under this proposal will not lose its independence. The prez and the exec have (and never will) no power to intervene in editorial decisions. Remember Canta is a student owned mag. If it were sold (read RDU) then we would have cause for concern.
Dont worry. Next year Canta will still be the same old shit read that it was this year. Its just fantastic that the former durying publications manager is not sucking of the collective student tit anymore.
Peace and Love.
Jack who has a Fat.
Jess
09. Oct, 2009
Yet you still sound slightly moronic! but thats ok, you have the Y chromosome working against you.
I just don’t see how that model will produce anything better than is already there. It seems to me to be adding layers of middle management to the already well stocked UC… and then adding the whole advisory board thing, that has an ex-president, will just make things convoluted and silly (i hope he isn’t paid - otherwise seems quite dodgy that he ups his pay and gives himself a new paying position next year), when right now we seem to have a functioning system or at least will after a good STAR reshuffle.
The editor this year has been really good!! From his editorials anyway, I mean shit contributors, but how has that changed?? I just don’t understand why we want to replace him with someone with 2-3 years experience in journalism management - who is also responsible for marketing the UC. Shouldn’t Canta really sit outside that whole Hub model…as it is meant to be critic and watchdog and all that crap.
Student Hardship Fund…was introduced this year wasn’t it? So UC had like a pretty well equipped system with a person working on it for years and then UCSA introduces a system, where its easier to get money for free? I mean, don’t get me wrong, seems really important, but….what is the reason the UCSA decided to duplicate the service? and what are these other areas of duplication??
I do agree I think the Levy is great for accountability, shit for not letting students have their say but great for having a solid amount we can judge the University on, but what better organisation than the UCSA for judging that. Now the UCSA has to judge itself, and if we are honest, and I think its important we be honest with each other Jack, University Student Association voting processes are a pretty shit way to hold an organisation accountable.
Its the UCSA’s job to hold the UC accountable for its services, not try to take them over! Teaching and learning are services. I mean, you talk to most of the services and one big problem is they need to be better connected to Colleges, how is it going to help to further remove across the river!!
Sorry a little disjointed, trying to finish this COMS essay as well, very distracting,
Love and kisses,
Jess
Ian
14. Oct, 2009
Hey Jack,
Thanks for your criticism. For your information I am an International Assistant (aninternational student mentor… unpaid would you believe it?!) and a 3rd year student. The fact is, you are assuming that ISS is doing a bad job, which is complete… well, it just isn’t true. The ISS services are infact ‘tailored’ for international students who are only here for a short time. What I see when i look at the ISS staff is not a bunch of ‘lazy huas’ or ‘ball lickers who work for UC services and dont want to see their sweet little lark disappear’ but rather people who genuinely care about the work that they do and who are worrying not about their jobs, but for the quality of pastoral care that will be offered should the services be offered by the UCSA.
Ciao,
Ian
Jack
14. Oct, 2009
Ian.
You don’t know that the UCSA won’t offer quality student services. They offer some pretty effective ones at the moment (take for example childcare centres). The fact is is that services for to long at UC have been underdone/ under delivered to students.
Ian. You are a student. Surely you must be excited about the idea of your students association being able to provide good quality services to many different sectors and groups of students. thus becoming more relevant to more students.
There are to many people around like you who are being taken for a ride by the UC under the guise of being a volunteer.
For years the UCSA has advocated for better student services. Now is its opportunity to provide such services- and for those who provide those services to be held directly accountable by the stakeholders/customers. Is a more effective/ efficient and accountable use of students dollars better than the status quo.
Lots of Love and Kisses.
Jack.
p.s Hi Jess.
JC
16. Oct, 2009
Hey Jack,
how much do you really know about international students’ needs and issues confronting them?
international student affairs have never been on UCSA’s agenda until very recent time- literally last year, and thanks to the ISS team, who have tried so hard for so long to establish relationships with UCSA.
by the way, I will give you one example– when the fees went up for domestic students, UCSA organised protests and made noises in the council. where the hell was the UCSA president when international students’ fees went up? was the person even aware of the issue at all???????
.
you don’t know as much as you think you do, buddy!!!
JC
Jess
14. Oct, 2009
Hi Jack,
…taken for a ride by the UC…in the guise of being a volunteer?
Please explain what you mean by this, it sounds wonderful! Does involve Rodd’s Car?
Sorry.
but…seriously, what do you mean? Are there a lot of cynical volunteer UC groups lurking round?
Love and kisses,
Jess
Someone who gives a damn
14. Oct, 2009
Gosh Jack. You really don’t listen to what anyone is saying do you? Kind of like Steve Jukes….
WE (current students) think that the UC ARE offering good services. And we happen not to think that UCSA will do a better job of offering them.
We think that rather than trying to take them over, the UCSA should keep itself in a position where it can lobby for the UC to improve the services it offers if it sees a need.
We think that the student services offered by the UC are better located IN the UC, and the massive disruption that shifting them and restructuring them would cause would only harm students.
I don’t understand why you are so scathing about volunteers, who you seem to think are being ‘taken for a ride’. Maybe people just like to help out without money being the objective. Maybe Steve Jukes should learn a little from them.
I am not at all excited about the idea of UCSA taking over the services, because they are a pretty lame duck about providing the services they have at the moment, so imagining that giving them MORE is going to result in a miraculous turnaround is absurd.
How about they try being relevant to students by providing quality advocacy and representation, not holding limp little focus groups and claim them as ‘representative’. As someone said already, not everyone on campus is here to get completely pissed and eat sausages. (oooh crikey! What else will UCSA do?)
Why shouldn’t the services as they exist be held accountable by good representation and advocacy by the UCSA to the UC on issues? Perhaps what is lacking here is not the location of the services but the means by which the UCSA provides representation of student opinion to the university??? (I think I just made an excellent point).
The UCSA plan is categorically NOT better than the status quo and, lets be honest, if anyone is stupid enough to move multi-millions worth of services to a sad little student association based on a sadder little proposal (which is completely lacking in any useful business rationale) then it will be a sad sad day on campus.
Love you all
SWGAD
Gav
16. Oct, 2009
Hello Jack.
I just want to back it up to 9 Oct (your first comment, Jack): Your response to Ian Gilmore sounded angry and defensive…..almost as if you were taking all this personally (are you?). By comparison, the points raised by Ian Gilmore in his letter to Rod Carr sounded quite reasonable I thought. Jack, there’s no need to get nasty about it. Chill. Find someone to give you a hug or a shoulder rub.
Jack does raise some interesting issues though….
1) Exorbitant wages: Assuming that Jack is right and that ISS professionals are going to be re-employed by the UCSA, how is shifting them from one employer to another going to save money and allow more money for services? Remember, the $600 student levy will be funding pastoral care services - not the Uni, not the UCSA. The students are funding this. So Jacks point about saving money is not a point at all. It’s not even close to a point (even though it is beside the point).
2) International students want a better service: Is this statement based on the UCSA survey? Yes? So, that must be a pretty reliable survey then. Um, no. Even the UCSA Service Delivery Proposal admits that ‘the sample size of the UCSA survey is too small to be definitive.’ No points there either, Jack.
3) Jack writes: “Why is the students association vilified?” He then answers his own question with: “Because its an easy target.” Good answer Jack. But then why is the UCSA an easy target? Try this: Steve Jukes himself admits that there has been a “significant drop in both the perceived relevance and reputation of the UCSA.” I think that answers the question quite nicely. A student association that is perceived by its members to be irrelevant and lacking in reputation is an “easy target” by any estimation. By the way, Mr Jukes wrote these words in his mid-year Presidents report (check it out online if you are interested). Jack, you still aren’t on the board as far as points go.
4) “UC have never been accountable for the services they provide students. Under this proposal the UCSA will.” Wrong again, Jack. With respect to pastoral care of international students, the University of Canterbury can outsource the service but not the responsibility. Ultimately, it will be the UC who are accountable for the services provided to international students, not the UCSA. That’s four points to nil, Jack. Would you like another game?
Bandar
JC
17. Oct, 2009
Hello Ian,
thank you for supporing ISS– I totally agree with you.
just one little thing that I want to make clear here though– international students are not just here for a short time. Well, it depends on how you define ’short’. there are some exchange students who are here for one or 2 semesters. however, the great majority of them are here for at least 3 years for a full degree. many of them are here for much longer as they either start with Bridging Programme, or decide to stay for postgraduate studies. so, effectively, one could stay here for one semester, or 8+years. yeah, 8+ YEARS.
I just wonder how UCSA will be able to provide continuity and consistancy in its service delivery, given that the election happens every year……..
by the way, UCSA can’t even get the catering right (gosh the food really sucks and the price is going up and up and up), how can we expect them to deal with anything more complex than bread rolls and meat pies???????
sleep well
JC